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Old 11-10-2006, 02:25 PM   #1
BlackHeart
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Time for Democrats to put up or shut up.

They've whined and pointed fingers for 12 years now, and proclaimed, "Oh but only if WE were in power things would be different" Well, now they have their chance. They've got a 2-year window to put forward their voices and be heard and make a difference. If they have any chance to get their own guy (Kerry? Heaven forbid!) or gal (Hilary?) in office they had better show some very positive results, or they may never get a second chance.

But, Only two days after Democrats take over the Senate and the house they are already making excuses. On the today show this morning a quote from Nancy Pelosi's gang: "Well, we will have some power over Bush as president, but hardly any as commander and chief." What???

What will democrats do? What is their plan for the next two years? Do they have one? There will be lots of investigations, but will there be any real changes? Any besides the given that democrats will push to raise taxes as always?

Will the troubles of our country be anything but an excuse for yet another sound bite against George W. Bush? Will they actually DO Something different different, or just use the tragedy to denounce Bush and his failed policies and never giving any new ideas of their own?

There is a reason Democrats have been out of power for so long. Two words. Wishy Washy. Kerry was the King of Wishy Washy. Hilary is not a whole lot better. Nancy Pelosi seems to be following suit so far.

Our political machine has become a tragic comedy and people like Osama bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong Il are laughing.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:43 PM   #2
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Exactly, our political system is the laughing stalk of the world. We have a president with an IQ of a toddler.
I voted mainly demorcrats in this election, just think we need a change of pace. Hopefully they will get some stuff done,though its highly unlikely. As,it seems noone ever agrees on how to get things done. Noone is ever on the same page,they are all in it for themselves..
Even if they dont, I'm glad donald rumstheld or whatever his name is,is gone now. I thought he was devious and a totally Ahole and he had no respect for anyone,but himself..
I mainly interested to see if Dems can get the country back on track w/jobs,healthcare and border issues(fuggin 300million ppl in this mug,we like a mini-china now). That concerns me that we are getting overpopulated and I seriously don't think the country can handle the load. This is just my opinion,but they need to close borders to everyone(not just illegals). At some point ya gotta stop letting ppl in. Least until u can get the country back on track(this probably talk for another time and different subject).
They got a lot of work to do. I think one top priority is world view of us,I think its at a all time low(thnks bush). There's onething being a hardass,but another being a total dick.
Like ya said its time for Dems to put up or shut up...Lets see if they can do it...

*ya I voted for Stem-cell,I want those fuggers to clone my dumb ass
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackHeart@Nov 10 2006, 03:25 PM
Time for Democrats to put up or shut up.

They've whined and pointed fingers for 12 years now, and proclaimed, "Oh but only if WE were in power things would be different" Well, now they have their chance. They've got a 2-year window to put forward their voices and be heard and make a difference. If they have any chance to get their own guy (Kerry? Heaven forbid!) or gal (Hilary?) in office they had better show some very positive results, or they may never get a second chance.

But, Only two days after Democrats take over the Senate and the house they are already making excuses. On the today show this morning a quote from Nancy Pelosi's gang: "Well, we will have some power over Bush as president, but hardly any as commander and chief." What???

What will democrats do? What is their plan for the next two years? Do they have one? There will be lots of investigations, but will there be any real changes? Any besides the given that democrats will push to raise taxes as always?

Will the troubles of our country be anything but an excuse for yet another sound bite against George W. Bush? Will they actually DO Something different different, or just use the tragedy to denounce Bush and his failed policies and never giving any new ideas of their own?

There is a reason Democrats have been out of power for so long. Two words. Wishy Washy. Kerry was the King of Wishy Washy. Hilary is not a whole lot better. Nancy Pelosi seems to be following suit so far.

Our political machine has become a tragic comedy and people like Osama bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong Il are laughing.
First and foremost im no champion of the democrats. They have made more than there fair share of blunders. But throw out all the attacks you want and i will give you 5 examples of the republican making the same blunders.

Being 40+ (yes im an old fugger IRL) I have plenty of knowledge of the political history since the first election of Reagan. I remeber the failure of our rescue mission at Desert 1 forward. There has been plenty of excuses and blame on both-sides of the isle. I remeber after Reagan got elected bemoaning the fiscally irresponsible democrats never being able to balance the budget only to tell us a couple years later when deficit had spiraled out of control that the Republican couldn't be blamed because it was the mess the democrats left them. Fast forward 20 years and Bush 2 was making excuses for running deficits before he was even sworn into office and we have gone from surplus to massive deficits. Again we here a hundred excuse for this but never see any changes.

The democrats don't have 2 years they have 6 months. In 6 months the presidental election will ramp up and there will be to much postering to get anything done. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6 months and we will see if they learned anything being out of power for the last 12 years.

Personally I will take divided government, because neither party is capable of running the government in a moderate form when they control power.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by biggrol+Nov 10 2006, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (biggrol @ Nov 10 2006, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BlackHeart@Nov 10 2006, 03:25 PM
Time for Democrats to put up or shut up.

They've whined and pointed fingers for 12 years now, and proclaimed, "Oh but only if WE were in power things would be different" Well, now they have their chance. They've got a 2-year window to put forward their voices and be heard and make a difference. If they have any chance to get their own guy (Kerry? Heaven forbid!) or gal (Hilary?) in office they had better show some very positive results, or they may never get a second chance.

But, Only two days after Democrats take over the Senate and the house they are already making excuses. On the today show this morning a quote from Nancy Pelosi's gang: "Well, we will have some power over Bush as president, but hardly any as commander and chief." What???

What will democrats do? What is their plan for the next two years? Do they have one? There will be lots of investigations, but will there be any real changes? Any besides the given that democrats will push to raise taxes as always?

Will the troubles of our country be anything but an excuse for yet another sound bite against George W. Bush? Will they actually DO Something different different, or just use the tragedy to denounce Bush and his failed policies and never giving any new ideas of their own?

There is a reason Democrats have been out of power for so long. Two words. Wishy Washy. Kerry was the King of Wishy Washy. Hilary is not a whole lot better. Nancy Pelosi seems to be following suit so far.

Our political machine has become a tragic comedy and people like Osama bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong Il are laughing.
First and foremost im no champion of the democrats. They have made more than there fair share of blunders. But throw out all the attacks you want and i will give you 5 examples of the republican making the same blunders.

Being 40+ (yes im an old fugger IRL) I have plenty of knowledge of the political history since the first election of Reagan. I remeber the failure of our rescue mission at Desert 1 forward. There has been plenty of excuses and blame on both-sides of the isle. I remeber after Reagan got elected bemoaning the fiscally irresponsible democrats never being able to balance the budget only to tell us a couple years later when deficit had spiraled out of control that the Republican couldn't be blamed because it was the mess the democrats left them. Fast forward 20 years and Bush 2 was making excuses for running deficits before he was even sworn into office and we have gone from surplus to massive deficits. Again we here a hundred excuse for this but never see any changes.

The democrats don't have 2 years they have 6 months. In 6 months the presidental election will ramp up and there will be to much postering to get anything done. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6 months and we will see if they learned anything being out of power for the last 12 years.

Personally I will take divided government, because neither party is capable of running the government in a moderate form when they control power. [/b][/quote]
Biggrol kinda nailed it.

There's more to governing then balancing national debt though. Being former military I saw pay raises and a higher standard of living during my tour. It was very noticable even during only a 5 year commitment. College/education programs were expanded, existing ones improved. The mattresses on ships made more fire resistant(and more comfortable). The Oxygen breathing aparatus(or OBA) was replaced by the SCBA(a much lighter and more functional fire fighter tool. Hoses and pumps that were ancient were finally replaced. All in all the Military functioned much better. Constant improvement for day to day functioning. Planning and application of that same military I believe to be very poorly thought out and abused..but that's another matter. Atleast the salaries are almost competitive and the health care is miles ahead of what it used to be.

I'm not sure what's happened to public schools etc. I've been out of them for 10 years and have no children..so, I don't have any personal responsibility to look into it. I know teachers still get paid like shit though.

Minimum wage has gone up(not enough..but it's improved) and the housing market and unemployment has been pretty good lately.

Foreign policy, republicans seem to just fail at.

I'm not a republican or have any tie to any party really, but some good has happened over the last 12 years. It's nice to see change though. We've been "at war" far too long. I think democrats will see that and end it.

I'm sure we'll get sick of the democratic party's short-comings quickly..but I hope they're "in power" for like 8 years or so to help balance things out some.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:29 PM   #5
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I think the biggest problem with politic, other than money, is the never ending campaign season. It use to be elections, a year to get something done, then a year of campaigning.

Now its campaign, election and start the next campaign. We had 1 republican before election and one democrat immediately after election announce there presidential campaign. Then you have the bigger players like McCain and Hillary organizing for the 08 campaign 2 years ago.

Politician on bothsides would rather have a campaign issue then solve a problem. The best example was immagration reform. Could have had a moderate deal this year but the House Republican thought it would be a winning issue and wouldn't make a deal. Democrats are no better, we will see if they learned from this years immagration reform fiasco.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
First and foremost im no champion of the democrats. They have made more than there fair share of blunders. But throw out all the attacks you want and i will give you 5 examples of the republican making the same blunders.
I'm not listing any blunders by the Democrats.

I'm urging them to DO something.

It's obvious that they can complain that the Republicans are doing things wrong, as I am sure the Republicans will complain about democrats now that they have a little power. But, I want to see them actually do something.

They can talk the talk. Now walk the walk.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:45 PM   #7
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I aggree Jeb there are lots of issue, but I didn't want to write a books

Former military myself and im prettey sensitive to that issue. Im not happy with all the damage the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and company has brought on the military. It will take a decade to requip the military and even longer to repair the manpower lost and weed out all the lower quality recruits that are allowed into the military today. Im really mad that after 9/11 they never expanded the size of the military. With the downsizing after the cold war ended, there has never been a higher willingness to increase the size of the military sinse the attack at Pearl Harbor. They missed that opportunity and we are suffering today because our military is to over extended.

Democrats have scored 1 victory in my book and that getting Rumsfeld replaced. Not sure if Gates will be any better, but its a start. Being another Bush family insider doesn't instill alot of confidence. I think they would have been better servered by getting a former military person to serve as Defense Chief, but they would rather have polictical insiders that they trust more than the most qualified canidate.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:48 PM   #8
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Lol. Biggrol.. there is only one person in my guild not "something over 40".. and he is 38. I dub thee Biggrol, Jr.

The voters number one issue was corruption. Tell me.. is corruption in Federal politics new.. is it likely to change? Or fester.. I work almost entirely on government contracts (I am heavy into ones for the States of New York, California, Idaho, Arizona and District of Columbia at the moment).. and it sickens me at times.

The Founding Fathers were smart and knew all this would happen. Why do you think you have to be 35 to be President? In an age where at 15 you were working.. 35 required you to have a life.. before you sought office.

Today, you get appointed into various Agency level positions fresh out of college. And then once you have some contacts.. you start a life time of elected service. Term limits? Just run for another office.

Government employees are the largest sector of the US Economy. Not even counting people like me whose companies have many government contracts. Yet we all vote.. isn't that conflict of interest?

Corruption in politics in beyond accepted.. it's expected. Tell me honestly, what was your reaction to the San Diego Representative that had a price sheet to get you votes and contracts? Was it "I don't believe someone in the House would whore himself!" or "I don't believe someone in the House would be stupid enough to let someone have a paper price list!". Thought so.

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Old 11-10-2006, 05:50 PM   #9
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This was in our local paper today and was written by Steve Chapman. I thought it was a good read and summed up how I see things after the election.

There is a spring in my step and a song in my heart this morning, because the election is over and my party won. Not the Democrats, and not the Republicans. No, the party that deeply distrusts both Nancy Pelosi and George W. Bush: the Divided Government party.
For the last 12 years, Republicans have controlled the House of Representatives, and for most of that time, they also ruled the Senate. During the Bush administration, this has been a bad thing, particularly for people who favored less government, and for people who liked Bush in 2000 because he opposed using the military for nation-building -- or, as Condoleezza Rice once put it, having "the 82nd Airborne escorting kids to kindergarten."

Despite its traditional principles, the GOP's monopoly in Washington has merely freed Republicans to indulge the empire-building, power-lusting, overspending, control-freaking elements that all politicians harbor deep in their souls. Government outlays have swelled, government intrusions have expanded, and the only reason the 82nd Airborne no longer escorts kids to kindergarten is that the job has gotten too dangerous.

But though it may be hard to remember now, the Republicans' original takeover of Congress back in 1994 was a very good thing. This was partly because they had some sound ideas, and partly because Democrats controlled the White House. This arrangement, though unsatisfactory to both sides, created the best of all possible worlds in Washington, by making each party stand guard on the other.

When federal power was last split, some of the GOP's good ideas became law: replacing welfare with workfare, curbing the growth of spending and forcing the government to live within its means. And many of its bad ideas -- authorizing state-sponsored prayer in schools, criminalizing leaks of classified material -- went nowhere.

The arrangement compelled Bill Clinton to enter into an ambitious agreement to eliminate the federal deficit, which soon generated something unheard of then and unheard of now: a budget surplus. Though Republican opposition couldn't prevent Clinton from going to war in Kosovo in 1999, it did force a vigorous debate so Americans at least knew what they were getting into.

Americans didn't know what they were getting into in Iraq, because the Republicans who controlled Congress facilitated Bush's rush to war and because Democrats lacked the votes (or the nerve) to block the way. The same one-party consensus gave the president a blank check to do whatever he wanted in the war on terror -- whether it was trying to deny the courts any say over Guantanamo, allowing torture of foreign detainees, or wiretapping Americans' phone calls without bothering to get a warrant.

Not only did their political dominance embolden Republicans to indulge their worst instincts, it led them to suppress their best ones. Upon gaining complete power, they found that spending federal dollars can be an addictive pastime, producing a binge that squandered the surplus. Their desire to return power to the states vanished once they saw how much fun they could have running everything from Washington.

Even conservatives -- or especially conservatives -- should welcome the return of divided government. Republicans may decide they would rather shift power back to the states than shift it to Nancy Pelosi. Fiscal conservatism could also make a comeback, as congressional Democrats block Republican spending proposals and Bush vetoes Democratic ones.

William Niskanen, chairman of the Cato Institute and former head of President Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers, points out that over the last 50 years, the only eras of budgetary restraint were the last six years of the Eisenhower administration and the last six years of the Clinton administration -- when the opposing party reigned in Congress. During periods of one-party rule, he found, spending increased three times as fast as in periods of divided power.

A revival of fiscal discipline is just one of the potential benefits of breaking up the Republican monopoly in Washington. Maybe the new order will make Republicans more true to their principles, and maybe it will make Democrats more responsible. Or maybe it will just keep either from doing their worst. In any case, we will probably rediscover an old truth: That government is best which unites least.
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Old 11-10-2006, 06:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Nov 10 2006, 12:15 PM
Another article:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...s_a_vote_o.html
How about http://www.loc.gov/index.html

Or do I start pasting the entire works of Ayn Rand, chapter by chapter.

More curious in *your* opinions.
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